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brightknightie) wrote2019-10-19 08:37 pm
brightknightie) wrote2019-10-19 08:37 pm
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HL's Ceirdwyn in canon
I rewatched HL's "Take Back the Night" last night. I was newly struck by how very little we learn about Ceirdwyn. Granted, her story arc utility is to play back to Duncan parts of his own story so that he can achieve his pivot to inviting Anne back into his life. Despite appearances, it's not actually about Ceirdwyn. And yet...
What do we learn about her?
In the time of Boadicea:
Ceirdwyn was a warrior, and part of an allied Celtic/Pictish tribe if not herself Iceni. Ceirdwyn was a good friend of a couple we meet briefly, a heavily pregnant woman and her husband, a warrior. Ceirdwyn buried them in a somewhat unlikely -- because she was the sole survivor of the massacre, and the level of work for her alone would have been intense -- but all the more touching recreation of a certain very famous British archeological site.
In the time of Bonnie Prince Charlie:
Ceirdwyn was already previously (and enthusiastically) acquainted with Duncan, who greeted her by her given name, though she was then going as Flora MacDonald. She seems to be the proprietor of an inn or hostelry of some kind, but it's odd that it is (1) completely built of stone, and (2) so very, very spacious, inside and out. I find myself constructing that the buildings must have belonged to another purpose, whether fortifications for church or nobility, before passing into her hands. In this period, she expresses solidarity with the cause of the monarchical restoration, which is essentially synonymous with Scottish independence, but wisely counsels against revenge. And when Duncan has done what he does in this period, you remember, wallowing in revenge in the brutal killing of the English brutal killers, she tells him he needs a taste of life; sex between them is strongly implied.
In the present:
Ceirdwyn is married to a man named Steven (or Stephen?), who has just been offered an opportunity of some kind in Spain and wants to move there to take advantage of it. She doesn't want to move; she expresses reluctance to leave their friends and says their life is in Paris, and other opportunities will come. He makes a cheap shot -- but perhaps a justified one -- at her immortality. They argue in a restaurant, and he is murdered by thugs when he goes to fetch their car. We learn that they live in a multi-story townhouse or apartment, decorated with cacti and some art in "southwestern" color schemes, no photos. They have wine/liquor and glasses meant for such in their home. They were together 15 years, and he'd been "just out of school" when she met him. When she goes hunting revenge, she paints her face as in Boudicca's day, and she wears her husband's leather jacket until she lays it on his grave. Duncan greets her in a way that may imply that he knows she currently lives in Paris, but it doesn't have to imply that; later conversation reveals that he doesn't seem to know anything of her current life with her husband.
What don't we learn?
We don't learn:
What do you think? What else do we learn, or not learn? And does she have any other canon appearances or references that I'm forgetting...?
Addendum, Sunday evening: Ceirdwyn's entry on the HL Wiki
What do we learn about her?
In the time of Boadicea:
Ceirdwyn was a warrior, and part of an allied Celtic/Pictish tribe if not herself Iceni. Ceirdwyn was a good friend of a couple we meet briefly, a heavily pregnant woman and her husband, a warrior. Ceirdwyn buried them in a somewhat unlikely -- because she was the sole survivor of the massacre, and the level of work for her alone would have been intense -- but all the more touching recreation of a certain very famous British archeological site.
In the time of Bonnie Prince Charlie:
Ceirdwyn was already previously (and enthusiastically) acquainted with Duncan, who greeted her by her given name, though she was then going as Flora MacDonald. She seems to be the proprietor of an inn or hostelry of some kind, but it's odd that it is (1) completely built of stone, and (2) so very, very spacious, inside and out. I find myself constructing that the buildings must have belonged to another purpose, whether fortifications for church or nobility, before passing into her hands. In this period, she expresses solidarity with the cause of the monarchical restoration, which is essentially synonymous with Scottish independence, but wisely counsels against revenge. And when Duncan has done what he does in this period, you remember, wallowing in revenge in the brutal killing of the English brutal killers, she tells him he needs a taste of life; sex between them is strongly implied.
In the present:
Ceirdwyn is married to a man named Steven (or Stephen?), who has just been offered an opportunity of some kind in Spain and wants to move there to take advantage of it. She doesn't want to move; she expresses reluctance to leave their friends and says their life is in Paris, and other opportunities will come. He makes a cheap shot -- but perhaps a justified one -- at her immortality. They argue in a restaurant, and he is murdered by thugs when he goes to fetch their car. We learn that they live in a multi-story townhouse or apartment, decorated with cacti and some art in "southwestern" color schemes, no photos. They have wine/liquor and glasses meant for such in their home. They were together 15 years, and he'd been "just out of school" when she met him. When she goes hunting revenge, she paints her face as in Boudicca's day, and she wears her husband's leather jacket until she lays it on his grave. Duncan greets her in a way that may imply that he knows she currently lives in Paris, but it doesn't have to imply that; later conversation reveals that he doesn't seem to know anything of her current life with her husband.
What don't we learn?
We don't learn:
- What Ceirdwyn or her husband do for a living in the present day.
- What skills or interests Ceirdwyn has, besides being a warrior, possibly managing an inn, and maybe raising cacti.
- Who any of her teachers or students have been, if any.
- Anything of her first meeting with Duncan, except that it was before that flashback and apparently had a very friendly conclusion.
- Anything about the "friends" and "life" in Paris that she was reluctant to give up.
- What kind of opportunity her husband had been offered.
What do you think? What else do we learn, or not learn? And does she have any other canon appearances or references that I'm forgetting...?
Addendum, Sunday evening: Ceirdwyn's entry on the HL Wiki
no subject
Incidentally, it’s Ceirdwyn.
no subject
My apologies for my misspelling. I will correct it.
Watcher Chronicles
I've tried HL S3 disc #6, with "Methos," "Take Back the Night," and "Testimony," in 3 assorted DVD players. All 3 fail to recognize it. So no access to the Watcher Chronicles for me for now. (If there's a way to get to the extras streaming, it's still a mystery to me.)
I've ordered an old CD-ROM reputedly compiling the Watcher Chronicles. Fingers crossed it's intact!
Re: Watcher Chronicles
https://highlander.fandom.com/wiki/Ceirdwyn
I think all the Chronicles have been put on this site, though I can’t vouch for accuracy or authenticity.
Re: Watcher Chronicles
That wiki has much information derived from the Watcher Chronicles, yet also from the pro novels and recent fan-made movies. It unfortunately doesn't seem to identify which information comes from which source. So I don't regret having ordered the CD that I hope will have the original Watcher Chronicles info.
Sometimes the Watcher Chronicles tidbits seem very valuable and fulfilling; sometimes they seem like an anchor dragging down possibilities. But I'm willing to accept them as deutero-canon in a way I'm not yet able to fully accept and integrate the pro novels and latest movie (which apparently gave Ceirdwyn a student who goes very bad).
Re: Watcher Chronicles
True, although I'm not sure it matters. The novels are canon -- though, not canon that I personally count since I was so unimpressed by them that I sold them off years ago and have no interest in reacquiring them. Likewise, the fan-made movies are also authorized productions, and therefore canon.
From my perspective, the Watchers Chronicles as a concept allow for precisely as much inclusion as one wishes to give them. After all, we know (it's canon!) that they've been doctored and falsified over the years, so we fan writers aren't obliged to include information in our stories that doesn't make sense.
Which movie gave Ceirdwyn a student who went bad? I don't remember that.
Re: Watcher Chronicles
That is a delightful and lovely reminder. Thank you!
>"Which movie gave Ceirdwyn a student who went bad? I don't remember that."
I haven't seen it, but apparently the most recent movie, Highlander: Dark Places, introduced a character named Ximena (her wiki page) who was a student of Ceirdwyn's. The character suffered her first death as a human sacrifice, and became not just a headhunter of immortals, but apparently a bloodthirsty killer of mortals, too.
Because the wiki doesn't differentiate its sources, I don't know what of this is coming from the movie on screen, in script, or elsewhere, like one of the games. They list 4 known students for Ceirdwyn; I look forward to that Watcher Chronicles CD-ROM telling me which were there at the time it was produced.
For myself, I don't count everything permitted by the intellectual property owners as equally canonical. I definitely see a gradient. :-) If they didn't want that to be true, well ... the poorly-written pro novels, and um, Highlander II, and the French cartoon, and the Japanese cartoon... ;-)
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